MGTOW is the new PUA

Bill Greathouse, founder of the TFL movement, just made a good video explaining this:

This video got me doing some thinking, and it seems he is totally right.  I did some brief google searches on PUA, which I have not done in quite a few years, just to see what was out there.  It seems that the number of PUA gurus has diminished 10-fold since about 2008.  A few of the same scumbags, such as RSD are still out there, but they are not getting anywhere near the business they used to.  The reason for this, I believe, is there is much more information out there about how PUA is a fraud.  I believe that this is the reason why MGTOW(MSTOW?) has been growing exponentially the past few years.  Bill brought up a great point on how MGTOW is suffering from infighting and is cult like, just like the PUA movement(a total cult).  I have no doubt that incels who, a few years ago, would have joined PUA, and failed miserably at it, are now becoming MGTOW.  The end result is the same, those incels would have still been incels, PUA or not.  At least with MGTOW, they are not wasting thousands of dollars on BS seminars/workshops, and all the stupid tricks to try and pick up women by feeding their narcissism and entitlement.  These guys are just going out and hiring hookers, dating women just for sex(if they are not incel), or just dropping out entirely, which despite what the cunt or its nagina says, will harm women if men in vast numbers are behaving like this, whether they are sent their own way or not.  Nobody is making any money on MGTOW unlike with PUA.  MGTOW are trying to spread word on the true nature of women, which is great, because it will end up harming women vs validating and pedestalizing them like PUA does.

12 thoughts on “MGTOW is the new PUA

  1. The MGTOW movement is unkind to incels. They don’t even believe in the concept.
    They got sex relatively easy and think that should be the way for all guys who really want it.
    (Hookers, escorts, tramps etc..)
    They had little sympathy for Eliot Rodgers, but they fail to understand that it is impossible
    to give up on something you’ve never had to begin with, and NEVER will have.
    There was a famous singer from the last century named Eddie Fischer. The title of his
    autobiography was “Been There, Done That.” He was married 8 times.


  2. ^ I wonder if the “MGTOW” you are actually talking about are “PUA-posing-as-MGTOW” … in short, alpha male pretending to be MGTOW.
    Because, those men don’t need to resort to dollars to get sex: Women give it to them.

    By the way, Greece is now a go-to place for fresh tasty tarts at affordable prices.
    2 Euros, and they’re between 17-20.
    Who says recessions and widespread unemployment don’t make for good times?

    By the way, not all “MGTOW” are unsympathetic to what Elliott, Sodini and Cho did.
    Because, if women want to live in a society, they have to reciprocate … even if they don’t want to, just like men … have to work even if they don’t want to.

    Houses aren’t going to get any cheaper (unless you want to live in a pit of crime) …
    so ladies, you better either turn tricks quickly, sleep with the boss … or sucker a man into marriage for half.

    Of course, fewer guys are believing them. And … good for them. Even in Asia – most c(o)untries have below fertility level replacement rates.


  3. I’m a MGTOW. I got major puzzie from the age of 11 onward. Will I ever get married and give a slotc the ring of power to destroy my life? R U Phucking Kidding Me?! Women can kiss my royal AZZ! Puzzie is good for one thing and one thing only- pump and dump. Get married? Ha! You’d have to be the worlds biggest fool – which is the kind of man puzzies are after!


  4. Ayn Rand didn’t have MGTOW in mind when she wrote “Atlas Shrugged,” but it depicts a MGTOW-like situation where the productive men of the mind go on strike to starve the abusive socialist state of wealth.

    The novel even shows sexual eviction as the burden of the MGTOW. John Galt was a virgin until well into his 30’s; Francisco d’Anconia went without sex after his youthful romance with Dagny; Ragnar gets to spend only one month out of the year with his wife; most of the other men on strike aren’t married or otherwise have women in their lives. Did Eddie Willers ever get to sleep with a girl?

    By contrast, many of the novel’s villains have girlfriends, mistresses and pickups. Rand inadvertently shows that women are really attracted to the jerks, thugs and bad boys, not to the productive nerds like John Galt.

    Yet Rand cultists from her lifetime onward have claimed that her philosophy promotes sexual fulfillment as a kind of byproduct, when Rand’s own novel shows sexual scarcity and frustration instead.


  5. “Ayn Rand didn’t have MGTOW in mind when she wrote “Atlas Shrugged,” but it depicts a MGTOW-like situation where the productive men of the mind go on strike to starve the abusive socialist state of wealth.”

    BA…BA…BA…BA…BINGO! Women and the state can’t survive without the abused utility, imposed disposabilty and forced wealth transfer from men to women and the state.

    You nailed it, brah. You are so much smarter than everyone else.


  6. I just watched “The Big Bang Theory” episode where Sheldon fucks a woman for the first time, well into his 30’s.

    NOT FUNNY, and certainly not an accurate depiction of most male virgins’ situations at that age, because Amy wanted sex with Sheldon all along. By contrast, male virgins usually wind up that way through sexual eviction by all the women they’ve known.

    The episode also assumes that Sheldon could get an erection and perform sexually at that age on his first try, without any preparation. I found out otherwise through my own experience in my 30’s.


  7. See here is my issue with Bill Greathouse… A lot of his stuff, most of it’s true, but he’s a little insecure and fanatical about it…To the point he makes up fake “facts” to shield his theory because he is insecure about it, and feels that if even one thing in his narrative is wrong, that it somehow invalidates everything he is saying…. Which is NOT the case.

    He tries to promote that “gender roles were created by the government” which is basically saying there are no differences between the genders beyond sexual organs, and he has said this several times in the past… This is literally the same shit feminists and globalist are pushing to promote the androgynous agenda. Are there situations where the differences are over-emphasized? Yeah sure, that doesn’t mean there aren’t differences though. Truth is, he’s saying this because society has taught him (rather he’s consciously aware of this or not) that he can’t be masculine enough to “be a real man” and apparently he has subconsciously internalized this, so he sees himself as shielding his philosophy. BUT in actuality, there was FAR less TFL back when natural gender roles were enforced and hypergamy was kept in check via meritocratic means.

    The other big thing with him is that he goes on about this “zero % physical attraction” theory, which is just flat out dumb. Yeah I agree the system has over-emphasized looks and has used lust to replace love, that much I agree with. But to say we don’t need ANY attraction, well if that’s the case, virtually 90% of TFL men who are average looking, are invalidated now because they could get that horrendously fugly girl whose already dating several layers up out of her league. Not all men can force or fake an attraction that is not there, some guys can and this is why you see men who are 6s and 7s with women who are 3s, because they can’t get a woman they are actually attracted to, and they are desparate. But this harms the woman too, once she finds out that she was a bottom of the barrel pick. At the end of the day that’s being dishonest both to themselves as men, and to the woman.

    Another thing I disagree with him on is how he totally demonizes sex and even men for having a sex drive, sex in and of itself is not the devil, it’s just been propagandized and used as a tool. The sex drive does play a bigger part in this shit than he wants to admit (not saying it’s the entire issue, FAR from it, but it is a significant part of it). Thing is, I’ve known Bill for close to 7 yrs now, and he’s been through like 5 relationships the entire time I’ve known him, plus he’s in his 50’s and his sex drive has died down considerably. So IMO he’s in no position to lecture younger men who are still going through this shit indefinitely, for having a sex drive.

    Also he loves to dig into semantics and say that incel is not the same thing as TFL because “they are all about sex, it’s in their name” when most men who identify as incel will say the same thing he does, that ultimately what they are lacking is companionship. So Bill is literally just splitting straws there.

    I say this as an allie, but I think he hurts his own cause more than he helps it sometimes. He’s too fanatical and defensive about this mess, and no doubt it’s because all his life he’s been neglected, bullied, and abused by society because of this…. But he has allowed this to shape how he thinks. And outsiders are going to see this insecurity and defensiveness, and say “well if he’s so insecure that he has to make up facts to deny the obvious, just to shield his philosophy from criticism, then why should we listen to him blame society for forcing him to do anything?”


  8. But yeah, honestly, most MGTOWs who are in their 20’s or 30’s are actually incel, either that or they may have been falsely accused of rape and did time for a crime they did not commit, but, this is only a few men relatively speaking. Although it is something to watch out for if your a young guy going to college. Otherwise the only ones getting fucked up in the family courts are usually men in their 40’s and up.


  9. Hi Marty,

    The problem with Bill is he discredits himself with all the conspiracy theory BS. In a recent video he rambles on about how hurricane irma is man made, really? He does not realize that statements like this make him come across as an ignorant hick. Most of what he says about male/female dynamics is totally true though and he has been around longer than mgtow, MRA, or red pill. You are right in that TFL and incel are the same, which is another thing I do not agree with Bill on, however, I have tremendous respect for Bill as he is the first man with the balls to actually show his face and give out his real name speaking about a problem that no one else would dare even touch so I honor him by mentioning TFL along with incel, even though they are one and the same. Bill has actually gotten fired from several jobs because of his youtube videos, when women at his job googled his name, fucking hilarious. Bill certainly has his quirks, but he deserves tremendous respect from all in the manosphere.


  10. I agree Rants. It takes one VERY large set of balls to post videos online that broach controversial subjects, and not hide your true identity. There are things that I would love to say concerning Incel/TFL, but I know that if I said them I would land myself in a whole;e lot of trouble. This is what happens when you give women too many rights, and allow them into positions of power, along with their mangina lapdogs; society goes to hell in hand basket, and we you get the epidemic of Incel/TFL that we now have today. And this in turn creates the Elliot Rodgers and the George Sodinis.


  11. I agree with most “conspiracy theories”, well the realistic ones. I’ve done my homework. I dunno if Irma was man-made or not but the government does have a patent on HAARP and they’ve been seeding clouds since Vietnam. Right now the left has total control over the media and the “education” system, PCness is just another name for cultural marxism or communism, and a communist coup fits the very definition of a conspiracy. If it can happen elsewhere (as it has been all through history) it can (and gradually is) happening here. We’re not snowflakes. Hell just 20 yrs ago everyone was so certain that the bilderbergs were “just a conspiracy theory,” today they are having private closed session meetings in public with protesters lined up outside, on mainstream media, take a look

    In fact honestly, I see die-hard coincidence theorism as a sign of emasculation because the reason for the attack on men is due to the fact that (naturally speaking) it is the men who are supposed to be the defiant ones who keep authority in check, who are supposed to be the logical ones (hence logically we know we’re not snowflakes). I’m not saying buy into every theory thrown out there, flat earth and alien astronaut theories are some wild shit with no real evidence to back it up, and all the “blame the jew” shit is practically like the right wing version of the SJWs. So yeah there are some dumb theories out there but not all conspiracies are baseless crackpot theories. It’s just human nature.


  12. It’s divide and conquer. Everything is the white male’s fault. White guys aren’t even allowed
    a sex urge. Minority trash can get away with anything and use the “racism” cover.
    A white guy looks cross-eyed at someone and it’s K.K.K. time.
    People have been tricked into suiciding themselves.
    As Eve said in the Garden Of Eden: “The serpent did begile me, and I did eat.”


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